Discussion:
[fsug-tvm] What would be the best practice for the moment?
(too old to reply)
nishandh M
2010-05-17 06:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Problem:
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it to be
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without warning,
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not have
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively low-perfoming
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main
context of thread]

**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of (5)

...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM priority? (please
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost its spread.
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual MailingList
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian, RedHat,
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing professional
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason 5)
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break downs(read along
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win owing to
thier international success in providing professional software compatibility
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application providers
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success in
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as this would
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.


..................................
--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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bipin kumar
2010-05-17 11:22:41 UTC
Permalink
1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user
choose'

ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements.
Post by nishandh M
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it to be
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without warning,
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not have
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively low-perfoming
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main
context of thread]
**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of (5)
...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM priority? (please
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost its spread.
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual MailingList
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian, RedHat,
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing professional
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason 5)
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break downs(read along
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win owing to
thier international success in providing professional software compatibility
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application providers
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success in
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as this would
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.
..................................
--
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
      "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
                        Leonardo da Vinci
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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nishandh M
2010-05-17 11:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements.
@Bipin, Unfortunately, I cant imagine user 'Govt' sitting in front of a boot
screen. I can think about end users only.Govt is the decision maker and
enforcer.
Could it be very wrong, if somebody says Govt asked a group of people, and
they made this mistake of instructing govt to use the specific distro in
administrative wings? Consider the frequency of breakdowns as evident in
this mailing list itself. Some end users are not comfortable with current
framework to support FLOSS. What would be the recommendation if Govt gives
the people an opportunity regarding improvement of FLOSS and support frame
work? This opportunity is always there.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user
choose'
Post by nishandh M
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it to be
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without warning,
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not have
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively
low-perfoming
Post by nishandh M
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main
context of thread]
**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of (5)
...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM priority?
(please
Post by nishandh M
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost its
spread.
Post by nishandh M
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual MailingList
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian, RedHat,
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing
professional
Post by nishandh M
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason 5)
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break downs(read
along
Post by nishandh M
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win owing to
thier international success in providing professional software
compatibility
Post by nishandh M
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application providers
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success in
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as this would
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.
..................................
--
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
Post by nishandh M
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
Post by nishandh M
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Post by nishandh M
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--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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bipin kumar
2010-05-17 12:23:44 UTC
Permalink
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization. these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc. heck you yourself has stated that govt is
going ahead with a custom solution for their purpose which means that
this solution is optimized for their purpose, i repeat their purpose.
these might include customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.

still if you are convinced about role of linux in an enterprise just
check out the business model and the client list of companies such as
Redhat, Canonical, IBM etc

this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.

earlier you were crying foul about lack of support in linux. if you
want good customer support just pay for it or else be content with the
community support with distros which i should say is doing a fine job
under the circumstances

Remember "there is nothing as free lunch".
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements.
@Bipin, Unfortunately, I cant imagine user 'Govt' sitting in front of a boot
screen. I can think about end users only.Govt is the decision maker and
enforcer.
Could it be very wrong, if somebody says Govt asked a group of people, and
they made this mistake of instructing govt to use the specific distro in
administrative wings? Consider the frequency of breakdowns as evident in
this mailing list itself. Some end users are not comfortable with current
framework to support FLOSS. What would be the recommendation if Govt gives
the people an opportunity regarding improvement of FLOSS and support frame
work? This opportunity is always there.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user
choose'
Post by nishandh M
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it to be
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without warning,
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not have
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively
low-perfoming
Post by nishandh M
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main
context of thread]
**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of (5)
...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM priority?
(please
Post by nishandh M
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost its
spread.
Post by nishandh M
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual MailingList
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian, RedHat,
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing
professional
Post by nishandh M
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason 5)
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break downs(read
along
Post by nishandh M
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win owing to
thier international success in providing professional software
compatibility
Post by nishandh M
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application providers
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success in
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as this would
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.
..................................
--
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
Post by nishandh M
      "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
                        Leonardo da Vinci
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
Post by nishandh M
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
To control your subscription visithttp://
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Post by nishandh M
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
To control your subscription visit
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--
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
      "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
                        Leonardo da Vinci
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
To control your subscription visithttp://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For details visit the google group page:http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Rajeev J Sebastian
2010-05-17 12:44:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization. these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc. heck you yourself has stated that govt is
going ahead with a custom  solution for their purpose which means that
this solution is optimized for their purpose, i repeat their purpose.
these might include  customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
still if you are convinced about role of linux in an enterprise just
check out the business model and the client list of companies such as
Redhat, Canonical, IBM etc
this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.
earlier you were crying foul about lack of support in linux. if you
want good customer support just pay for it or else be content with the
community support with distros which i should say is doing a fine job
under the circumstances
Remember "there is nothing as free lunch".
+100

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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nishandh M
2010-05-17 14:50:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally structured
enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders in
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited performers
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies match]
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members
should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it as "It
would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured enterprise?

Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing for
it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a feild
they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who would
like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels are free
to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL.

Some elaboration which most of us doesnt need, but i enjoy story telling: we
have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an all
purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has
limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle
cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations are
made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting
priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities' is understood as some
enforcement?

You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post?


heck you yourself has stated that govt is
Post by bipin kumar
going ahead with a custom solution for their purpose
Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell> " why
does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i am some
non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in FLOSS?
being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with the
adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic.

Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi', you
F***" and i stops it :) not.

which means that
Post by bipin kumar
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing games are
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you have
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve as
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.

To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are shared
for watching news streams and working research/educational simulators.
We (who ever it is) doesnt use it for creative purpose means we have set our
priorities adorably like that.
Post by bipin kumar
still if you are convinced about role of linux in an enterprise just
check out the business model and the client list of companies such as
Redhat, Canonical, IBM etc
So you have made a refernce to a working model. I will certainly try reading
on that. I would try to understand their functional objective of providing
service in IT sector would match the objectives of end user in Govt sector
of Kerala.
Post by bipin kumar
this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.
Converse of theory: The more stupid the base distribution is, the more money
they get. (Reading in between lines). Let their buisiness model work. for
any sake.

Fact: IF a FLOSS company with buisiness ethics propose that 'they rectify
the problems of ITC sector of Govt of Kerala' based on FLOSS, they can win
it without even 1% of the money M$ spent on Malyasian bureaucracy*. (*as
read on internet).
Post by bipin kumar
earlier you were crying foul about lack of support in linux. if you
want good customer support just pay for it or else be content with the
community support with distros which i should say is doing a fine job
under the circumstances
Remember "there is nothing as free lunch".
If the hotel owner thinks ditributing food for free cures his only daughters
disease, the 'customer' gets free lunch. Isolate the customer from the
Hotel owner in discussing this system. The customer gets lunch absolutely
free. When there are a lot of such hotel owners in the society, and they
declare lunch is available for free(or is known), the customer gets lunch
free 365 & 1/4.

The kerala farmer survey on why individuals TUX, may be put to scrutiny to
get an answer.
I am not comparing the ideology behind FLOSS to the above stupid reason. Its
an easy grab and a comparitively simple system. We have a reason, Humanity.
And the tendency to fight againsit what is percieved as anti human.

Forgive me, there is lot of noise, either you can deal with core issues or
pour some aviation turbine fluid into the noise.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements.
@Bipin, Unfortunately, I cant imagine user 'Govt' sitting in front of a
boot
Post by nishandh M
screen. I can think about end users only.Govt is the decision maker and
enforcer.
Could it be very wrong, if somebody says Govt asked a group of people,
and
Post by nishandh M
they made this mistake of instructing govt to use the specific distro in
administrative wings? Consider the frequency of breakdowns as evident in
this mailing list itself. Some end users are not comfortable with current
framework to support FLOSS. What would be the recommendation if Govt
gives
Post by nishandh M
the people an opportunity regarding improvement of FLOSS and support
frame
Post by nishandh M
work? This opportunity is always there.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user
choose'
Post by nishandh M
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it to
be
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without
warning,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not
have
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively
low-perfoming
Post by nishandh M
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main
context of thread]
**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of (5)
...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM priority?
(please
Post by nishandh M
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost its
spread.
Post by nishandh M
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual
MailingList
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian,
RedHat,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing
professional
Post by nishandh M
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason 5)
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break downs(read
along
Post by nishandh M
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win owing
to
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
thier international success in providing professional software
compatibility
Post by nishandh M
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application
providers
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success in
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as this
would
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.
..................................
--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
#
Post by nishandh M
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
#
Post by nishandh M
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
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Post by nishandh M
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
Post by nishandh M
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #
Post by nishandh M
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Post by nishandh M
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
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Rajeev J Sebastian
2010-05-17 15:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally structured
 enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders in
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited performers
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies match]
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members
should never form an enterprise".
HAHAHA. You must be joking. That will never work, because employees
somehow think 100% differently when they come home and don their
"FLOSS" hats.
Post by nishandh M
Heck = "way of referring to Hell " why does men get this much adrenaline
rush on my comments? is it that i am some non-techie? (non-touchee
:) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in FLOSS?  being at CCMB you are
aware how much tissue you are endangering with the adrenaline rush. Forget
that its from me, just consider the logic.
Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi', you
F***" and i stops it :)  not.
Guess what I am saying right now? :P
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
which means that
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include  customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing  games are
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you have
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve as
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.
To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are shared
for watching news streams and working research/educational simulators.
We (who ever it is) doesnt use it for creative purpose means we have set our
priorities adorably like that.
Most techies watch a lot of movies and play a lot of games ... (or get
entertained in some other way). I personally have a 600GB collection
of movies and play Urbanterror every 5-6 hours.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.
Converse of theory: The more stupid the base distribution is, the more money
they get. (Reading in between lines). Let their buisiness model work. for
any sake.
Fact: IF a FLOSS company with buisiness ethics propose that 'they rectify
the problems of ITC sector of Govt of Kerala' based on FLOSS, they can win
it without even 1% of the money M$ spent on Malyasian bureaucracy*. (*as
read on internet).
You are 100% wrong about this. I would say the "Govt" has other
priorities than supporting FLOSS or supporting companies with business
ethics. What they are committed to is of course, using FLOSS as an
election platform or as a promotion platform to fool people.


Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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nishandh M
2010-05-17 17:14:22 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:22 PM, Rajeev J Sebastian <
Post by nishandh M
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally
structured
Post by nishandh M
enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders
in
Post by nishandh M
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited
performers
Post by nishandh M
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies
match]
Post by nishandh M
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members
should never form an enterprise".
HAHAHA. You must be joking. That will never work, because employees
somehow think 100% differently when they come home and don their
"FLOSS" hats.
Assuming you left off the working atmosphere and
resource-to-productivity-ratio in a committed NGO?
Post by nishandh M
Post by nishandh M
Heck = "way of referring to Hell " why does men get this much adrenaline
rush on my comments? is it that i am some non-techie? (non-touchee
:) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in FLOSS? being at CCMB you are
aware how much tissue you are endangering with the adrenaline rush.
Forget
Post by nishandh M
that its from me, just consider the logic.
Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi',
you
Post by nishandh M
F***" and i stops it :) not.
Guess what I am saying right now? :P
yaeh, you made it very straight earlier, i want some more signs under it!
Post by nishandh M
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
which means that
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing games are
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you
have
Post by nishandh M
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve
as
Post by nishandh M
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.
To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are
shared
Post by nishandh M
for watching news streams and working research/educational simulators.
We (who ever it is) doesnt use it for creative purpose means we have set
our
Post by nishandh M
priorities adorably like that.
Most techies watch a lot of movies and play a lot of games ... (or get
entertained in some other way). I personally have a 600GB collection
of movies and play Urbanterror every 5-6 hours.
@ sorry man, this is personal, its certainly better than my personality
which you comentd upon.(the allopathy thingy, which you mis interpreted as
modern medicine as such).
Post by nishandh M
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.
Converse of theory: The more stupid the base distribution is, the more
money
Post by nishandh M
they get. (Reading in between lines). Let their buisiness model work. for
any sake.
Fact: IF a FLOSS company with buisiness ethics propose that 'they rectify
the problems of ITC sector of Govt of Kerala' based on FLOSS, they can
win
Post by nishandh M
it without even 1% of the money M$ spent on Malyasian bureaucracy*. (*as
read on internet).
You are 100% wrong about this. I would say the "Govt" has other
priorities than supporting FLOSS or supporting companies with business
ethics. What they are committed to is of course, using FLOSS as an
election platform or as a promotion platform to fool people.
any Govt(Kerala), not allocating resources for FLOSS development, is doing
harm to the nation in long term.
Post by nishandh M
Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "ilug-tvm" group.
To control your subscription visit
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--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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bipin kumar
2010-05-17 16:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you?

do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment
process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed
it to you in a way you understand

the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm
or al-qaeda for that matter.

they have their needs and might have consulted with peoples, and i
hope some of them might be from the community as well thats all the
fsug has to do with that decision and since its the govt decision
maybe you can file an RTI to know about actual variables they took in
to their decision making process and then come back here and discuss
the merits and demerits of the aforesaid solution, rather than
shooting in the dark

there is something you have to get into thick skull, the hardware/
software procured by the government is supposed to do only one thing
which is to run the governance related applications(accounting,
inventory etc) and not any other frivolous stuff. the employees will
be trained to run those apps at the taxpayer's(which btw includes you
as well) expense.
further you claim that business model of linux based companies is
based on a flawed premise that, Linux is user-unfriendly and hence
there is requirement of customer support which they are milking for
their commercial purpose. by the same logic the other OS supposedly
user friendly options are then literally ripping off the customers.
first you have to pay exorbitant amounts as licensing, deploy
expensive hardware and pay substantial amounts of money as maintenance
and support fees annually

i will give you an example, assuming the hardware cost being
same(maybe Rs. 00 for arguments sake) the cost of deploying SLED (this
includes OS, basic set of office applications and other productivity
tools, security framework etc) was around 7500 Rs per pc per year
excluding hardware, now if you are to deploy MS Vista/win7
enterprise(under MS EULA one cannot install any other version of
winOSs in commercial platform i.e anything above 25 pcs) you will have
to pay around the same amount for the OS alone, add to that price for
a enterprise wide security solution(same as earlier no retail version
allowed in commercial platforms) along with other required softwares.
now to use OSX you have to buy an relatively expensive hardware
platform just to have access to it. further if MS/apple decide to
cease support for a particular os version you will have shell out
additional amounts in terms of upgrading the hardware alone or else
you will be stuck with outdated and EOL solution. further the apps you
deployed on them might not be compatible to the newer os platform.
this is one the main reasons many organization are not upgrading from
win xp to vista/win7 despite MS pleas/ads. It is educating for you to
read about IE6 debacle that many organization face now.

now leave aside your personal tastes, idiosyncrasies and use the
commonsense and tell us which is better investment of taxpayer’s
money aka your money

what i do with my hardware/software is my concern alone, whether i
play fps, rts or watch porn because i have paid for it with my hard
earned money. the govt/people's money is put into ICT for doing the
sole task of governance and nothing else as stated earlier. you want
to be creative buy your stuff, don't do it on common man's expense.

one point to add there is already a working linux based solution
deployed in public educational system called the ***@School GNU/Linux
if you haven't heard of. it is basically a customized debian distro as
far as i can gather from my tinkering with it. and it is working fine
till date with help of community support i might add. there is enough
opportunity for students to explore their creativity etc in that
platform. the only drawback i see are the luck of sufficient amount of
hardware to ensure optimal access for students, lack of content in
local languages which i should say is being addressed.

now to the last part. if someone is providing free good lunch for you,
fine go and have it by all means. If you don’t like it you have the
option of not going again, there is no compulsion. you cant be prickly
about the amount of salt in the sambar etc

bipin

ps: posted from my win7/ubuntu lucid laptop :-)
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally structured
 enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders in
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited performers
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies match]
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members
should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it as "It
would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured enterprise?
Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing for
it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a feild
they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who would
like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels are free
to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL.
Some elaboration which most of us doesnt need, but i enjoy story telling: we
have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an all
purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has
limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle
cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations are
made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting
priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities'  is understood as some
enforcement?
You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post?
heck you yourself has stated that govt is
Post by bipin kumar
going ahead with a custom  solution for their purpose
Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell> " why
does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i am some
non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in FLOSS?
 being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with the
adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic.
Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi', you
F***" and i stops it :)  not.
which means that
Post by bipin kumar
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include  customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing  games are
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you have
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve as
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.
To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are shared
for watching news streams and working research/educational simulators.
We (who ever it is) doesnt use it for creative purpose means we have set our
priorities adorably like that.
Post by bipin kumar
still if you are convinced about role of linux in an enterprise just
check out the business model and the client list of companies such as
Redhat, Canonical, IBM etc
So you have made a refernce to a working model. I will certainly try reading
on that. I would try to understand their functional objective of providing
service in IT sector would match the objectives of end user in Govt sector
of Kerala.
Post by bipin kumar
this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.
Converse of theory: The more stupid the base distribution is, the more money
they get. (Reading in between lines). Let their buisiness model work. for
any sake.
Fact: IF a FLOSS company with buisiness ethics propose that 'they rectify
the problems of ITC sector of Govt of Kerala' based on FLOSS, they can win
it without even 1% of the money M$ spent on Malyasian bureaucracy*. (*as
read on internet).
Post by bipin kumar
earlier you were crying foul about lack of support in linux. if you
want good customer support just pay for it or else be content with the
community support with distros which i should say is doing a fine job
under the circumstances
Remember "there is nothing as free lunch".
If the hotel owner thinks ditributing food for free cures his only daughters
disease, the 'customer'  gets free lunch. Isolate the customer from the
Hotel owner in discussing this system. The customer gets lunch absolutely
free. When there are a lot of such hotel owners in the society, and they
declare lunch is available for free(or is known), the customer gets lunch
free 365 & 1/4.
The kerala farmer survey on why individuals TUX, may be put to scrutiny to
get an answer.
I am not comparing the ideology behind FLOSS to the above stupid reason. Its
an easy grab and a comparitively simple system. We have a reason, Humanity.
And the tendency to fight againsit what is percieved as anti human.
Forgive me, there is lot of noise, either you can deal with core issues or
pour some aviation turbine fluid into the noise.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements.
@Bipin, Unfortunately, I cant imagine user 'Govt' sitting in front of a
boot
Post by nishandh M
screen. I can think about end users only.Govt is the decision maker and
enforcer.
Could it be very wrong, if somebody says Govt asked a group of people,
and
Post by nishandh M
they made this mistake of instructing govt to use the specific distro in
administrative wings? Consider the frequency of breakdowns as evident in
this mailing list itself. Some end users are not comfortable with current
framework to support FLOSS. What would be the recommendation if Govt
gives
Post by nishandh M
the people an opportunity regarding improvement of FLOSS and support
frame
Post by nishandh M
work? This opportunity is always there.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user
choose'
Post by nishandh M
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it to
be
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without
warning,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not
have
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively
low-perfoming
Post by nishandh M
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main
context of thread]
**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of (5)
...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM priority?
(please
Post by nishandh M
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost its
spread.
Post by nishandh M
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual
MailingList
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian,
RedHat,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing
professional
Post by nishandh M
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason 5)
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break downs(read
along
Post by nishandh M
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win owing
to
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
thier international success in providing professional software
compatibility
Post by nishandh M
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application
providers
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success in
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as this
would
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.
..................................
--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
#
Post by nishandh M
      "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
                        Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
#
Post by nishandh M
--
"Freedom is the only law".
...
read more »
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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nishandh M
2010-05-17 18:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you?
do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment
process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed
it to you in a way you understand
the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm
or al-qaeda for that matter.
I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug!
Post by bipin kumar
they have their needs and might have consulted with peoples, and i
hope some of them might be from the community as well thats all the
fsug has to do with that decision and since its the govt decision
maybe you can file an RTI to know about actual variables they took in
to their decision making process and then come back here and discuss
the merits and demerits of the aforesaid solution, rather than
shooting in the dark
When i am shooting into ilug tvm, i dont think its shooting into dark. there
could be some men interestd.
Post by bipin kumar
there is something you have to get into thick skull, the hardware/
software procured by the government is supposed to do only one thing
which is to run the governance related applications(accounting,
inventory etc) and not any other frivolous stuff. the employees will
be trained to run those apps at the taxpayer's(which btw includes you
as well) expense.
yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view)
Post by bipin kumar
further you claim that business model of linux based companies is
based on a flawed premise that, Linux is user-unfriendly and hence
there is requirement of customer support which they are milking for
their commercial purpose.
yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a
very transparent way ?
Post by bipin kumar
by the same logic the other OS supposedly
user friendly options are then literally ripping off the customers.
first you have to pay exorbitant amounts as licensing, deploy
expensive hardware and pay substantial amounts of money as maintenance
and support fees annually
i will give you an example, assuming the hardware cost being
same(maybe Rs. 00 for arguments sake) the cost of deploying SLED (this
includes OS, basic set of office applications and other productivity
tools, security framework etc) was around 7500 Rs per pc per year
excluding hardware, now if you are to deploy MS Vista/win7
enterprise(under MS EULA one cannot install any other version of
winOSs in commercial platform i.e anything above 25 pcs) you will have
to pay around the same amount for the OS alone, add to that price for
a enterprise wide security solution(same as earlier no retail version
allowed in commercial platforms) along with other required softwares.
now to use OSX you have to buy an relatively expensive hardware
platform just to have access to it. further if MS/apple decide to
cease support for a particular os version you will have shell out
additional amounts in terms of upgrading the hardware alone or else
you will be stuck with outdated and EOL solution. further the apps you
deployed on them might not be compatible to the newer os platform.
this is one the main reasons many organization are not upgrading from
win xp to vista/win7 despite MS pleas/ads. It is educating for you to
read about IE6 debacle that many organization face now.
Sure, admirable wealth of data. this would certainly help.
Post by bipin kumar
now leave aside your personal tastes, idiosyncrasies and use the
commonsense and tell us which is better investment of taxpayer’s
money aka your money
Thanks for the statement. This would have given earlier, but now it came
with a wealth of statistics.
Post by bipin kumar
what i do with my hardware/software is my concern alone, whether i
play fps, rts or watch porn because i have paid for it with my hard
earned money. the govt/people's money is put into ICT for doing the
sole task of governance and nothing else as stated earlier. you want
to be creative buy your stuff, don't do it on common man's expense.
Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks. No
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it.
Post by bipin kumar
one point to add there is already a working linux based solution
if you haven't heard of. it is basically a customized debian distro as
far as i can gather from my tinkering with it. and it is working fine
till date with help of community support i might add. there is enough
opportunity for students to explore their creativity etc in that
platform.
The student thingy described above was the after-schooling problem. They do
have more than enough to explore, and the freedom to take it to any height.
good. They remain in FOSS or migrate to some other platform?
http://www.freelists.org/archive/schoolgnu/04-2010 is the community i think.
i has 4 posts for the last month, only one technical issue. either its not
working, or its near perfect.

Akshaya system is another, which practically still runs mostly on
proprietory system.

the only drawback i see are the luck of sufficient amount of
Post by bipin kumar
hardware to ensure optimal access for students, lack of content in
local languages which i should say is being addressed.
now to the last part. if someone is providing free good lunch for you,
fine go and have it by all means. If you don’t like it you have the
option of not going again, there is no compulsion. you cant be prickly
about the amount of salt in the sambar etc
game over for me :( jaaabba! some MOAB fell on my head!
Post by bipin kumar
bipin
danku! that was constructive.
Post by bipin kumar
ps: posted from my win7/ubuntu lucid laptop :-)
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally
structured
Post by nishandh M
enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders
in
Post by nishandh M
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited
performers
Post by nishandh M
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies
match]
Post by nishandh M
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members
should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it as
"It
Post by nishandh M
would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured enterprise?
Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing for
it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a
feild
Post by nishandh M
they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who
would
Post by nishandh M
like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels are
free
Post by nishandh M
to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL.
we
Post by nishandh M
have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an all
purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has
limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle
cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations are
made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting
priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities' is understood as some
enforcement?
You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post?
heck you yourself has stated that govt is
Post by bipin kumar
going ahead with a custom solution for their purpose
Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell> "
why
Post by nishandh M
does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i am
some
Post by nishandh M
non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in
FLOSS?
Post by nishandh M
being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with the
adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic.
Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi',
you
Post by nishandh M
F***" and i stops it :) not.
which means that
Post by bipin kumar
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing games are
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you
have
Post by nishandh M
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve
as
Post by nishandh M
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.
To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are
shared
Post by nishandh M
for watching news streams and working research/educational simulators.
We (who ever it is) doesnt use it for creative purpose means we have set
our
Post by nishandh M
priorities adorably like that.
Post by bipin kumar
still if you are convinced about role of linux in an enterprise just
check out the business model and the client list of companies such as
Redhat, Canonical, IBM etc
So you have made a refernce to a working model. I will certainly try
reading
Post by nishandh M
on that. I would try to understand their functional objective of
providing
Post by nishandh M
service in IT sector would match the objectives of end user in Govt
sector
Post by nishandh M
of Kerala.
Post by bipin kumar
this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os.
instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring
the os to meet the customers need.
Converse of theory: The more stupid the base distribution is, the more
money
Post by nishandh M
they get. (Reading in between lines). Let their buisiness model work. for
any sake.
Fact: IF a FLOSS company with buisiness ethics propose that 'they rectify
the problems of ITC sector of Govt of Kerala' based on FLOSS, they can
win
Post by nishandh M
it without even 1% of the money M$ spent on Malyasian bureaucracy*. (*as
read on internet).
Post by bipin kumar
earlier you were crying foul about lack of support in linux. if you
want good customer support just pay for it or else be content with the
community support with distros which i should say is doing a fine job
under the circumstances
Remember "there is nothing as free lunch".
If the hotel owner thinks ditributing food for free cures his only
daughters
Post by nishandh M
disease, the 'customer' gets free lunch. Isolate the customer from the
Hotel owner in discussing this system. The customer gets lunch absolutely
free. When there are a lot of such hotel owners in the society, and they
declare lunch is available for free(or is known), the customer gets lunch
free 365 & 1/4.
The kerala farmer survey on why individuals TUX, may be put to scrutiny
to
Post by nishandh M
get an answer.
I am not comparing the ideology behind FLOSS to the above stupid reason.
Its
Post by nishandh M
an easy grab and a comparitively simple system. We have a reason,
Humanity.
Post by nishandh M
And the tendency to fight againsit what is percieved as anti human.
Forgive me, there is lot of noise, either you can deal with core issues
or
Post by nishandh M
pour some aviation turbine fluid into the noise.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they
have
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements.
@Bipin, Unfortunately, I cant imagine user 'Govt' sitting in front of
a
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
boot
Post by nishandh M
screen. I can think about end users only.Govt is the decision maker
and
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
enforcer.
Could it be very wrong, if somebody says Govt asked a group of
people,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
and
Post by nishandh M
they made this mistake of instructing govt to use the specific distro
in
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
administrative wings? Consider the frequency of breakdowns as evident
in
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
this mailing list itself. Some end users are not comfortable with
current
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
framework to support FLOSS. What would be the recommendation if Govt
gives
Post by nishandh M
the people an opportunity regarding improvement of FLOSS and support
frame
Post by nishandh M
work? This opportunity is always there.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
educational
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the
user
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
choose'
Post by nishandh M
[Fact, context]
2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it
to
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
be
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact]
3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific
purposes,[Fact]
4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without
warning,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
when softwares profile is changed[Fact]
5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does
not
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
have
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively
low-perfoming
Post by nishandh M
professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact,
main
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
context of thread]
**apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of
(5)
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
...............................
As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM
priority?
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
(please
Post by nishandh M
select more than one if necessary)
6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has
adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost
its
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
spread.
Post by nishandh M
7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual
MailingList
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
members interest.
8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian,
RedHat,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n
9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing
professional
Post by nishandh M
GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason
5)
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer
communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break
downs(read
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
along
Post by nishandh M
with 4)
11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win
owing
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
to
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
thier international success in providing professional software
compatibility
Post by nishandh M
:D
12)Get into long term contract with professional application
providers
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
(Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success
in
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
providing professional software compatibility
13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as
this
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
would
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now.
11)something else.
..................................
--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
#
Post by nishandh M
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
#
Post by nishandh M
--
"Freedom is the only law".
...
read more »
--
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bipin kumar
2010-05-17 20:40:57 UTC
Permalink
"> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
Post by nishandh M
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. "
its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am
referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement
in quotes don't require further explanation
Post by nishandh M
"I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug.
and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! "
Post by nishandh M
"yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view"

really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like
to hear and see what you like to see.

this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted
of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational
system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the
schools)

now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context,
will you please explain. now regarding use of macs and other expensive
stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work,
have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just
to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein
structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no
other platform cuts it. you want us wait for the day when such
technology becomes available in other affordable platforms?

i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are
made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and
financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis.

you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of
an organization. However open source community can help the government
in taking intelligent decision while deploying an ICT infrastructure.
Post by nishandh M
"yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in
a
very transparent way ? "

now this is an example of the kind of journalism we see nowadays.
rather than reacting to the whole statement you are making comment on
the basis of a part of my argument and not the complete one. any sane
man reading through this post is going to have serious doubts
regarding your motives. anyway why should government should tackle
such a problem? as per our constitution government can interfere in
the activities of a business only if they are suspected/found to
commit malpractices under the law and not at the whims and fancies of
a person. do you have any proof to the effect that corporations such
as Redhat is giving substandard products/services in order to boost
their profits, then by all means go ahead and sue them or make those
proof public so that we ignorants become enlightened. Till then its
innocent until proven guilty.
Post by nishandh M
"Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks. No
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it."

now this is getting personal and the holy cow expression not humouring
me in this context
put it this way i have a laptop which have brought from my fellowship.
this fellowship isn't anyone's gift or dole, rather i have earned it
and you personally know how difficult is to get one. so its my
prerogative that what i do with my system and your comments are not
welcome in that matter in a public forum. i am aware of the fact that
fellowship is awarded to me by the country in the hope of me doing
something constructive to society and to that extend i will do
whatever i can. however my personal life is not hostage to that fact
an hardware/software solution brought using taxpayers money by the
government for governance purpose should only be used for that purpose
alone and not for playing games by kids of some [public servant, if
they want to do that they can buy their own stuff from their salary.

on the lighter note do us a favour will you? read through your lengthy
statements twice before posting. its getting very difficult make sense
out of those statements, i can do better job making sense from some
journal articles
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you?
do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment
process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed
it to you in a way you understand
the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm
or al-qaeda for that matter.
I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug!
Post by bipin kumar
they have their needs and might have consulted with peoples, and i
hope some of them might be from the  community as well thats all the
fsug has to do with that decision and since its the govt decision
maybe you can file an RTI to know about actual variables they took in
to their decision making process and then come back here and discuss
the merits and demerits of the aforesaid solution, rather than
shooting in the dark
When i am shooting into ilug tvm, i dont think its shooting into dark. there
could be some men interestd.
Post by bipin kumar
there is something you have to get into thick skull, the hardware/
software procured by the government is supposed to do only one thing
which is to run the governance related applications(accounting,
inventory etc) and not any other frivolous stuff. the employees will
be trained to run those apps at the taxpayer's(which btw includes you
as well) expense.
yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view)
Post by bipin kumar
further you claim that business model of linux based companies is
based on a flawed premise that, Linux is user-unfriendly and hence
there is requirement of customer support which they are milking for
their commercial purpose.
yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a
very transparent way ?
Post by bipin kumar
by the same logic the other OS supposedly
user friendly options are then literally ripping off the customers.
first you have to pay exorbitant amounts as licensing, deploy
expensive hardware and pay substantial amounts of money as maintenance
and support fees annually
i will give you an example, assuming the hardware cost being
same(maybe Rs. 00 for arguments sake) the cost of deploying SLED (this
includes OS, basic set of office applications and other productivity
tools, security framework etc) was around 7500 Rs per pc per year
excluding hardware, now if you are to deploy MS Vista/win7
enterprise(under MS EULA one cannot install any other version of
winOSs in commercial platform i.e anything above 25 pcs) you will have
to pay around the same amount for the OS alone, add to that price for
a enterprise wide security solution(same as earlier no retail version
allowed in commercial platforms) along with other required softwares.
now to use OSX you have to buy an relatively expensive hardware
platform just to have access to it. further if MS/apple decide to
cease support for a particular os version you will have shell out
additional amounts in terms of upgrading the hardware alone or else
you will be stuck with outdated and EOL solution. further the apps you
deployed on them might not be compatible to the newer os platform.
this is one the main reasons many organization are not upgrading from
win xp to vista/win7 despite MS pleas/ads. It is educating for you to
read about IE6 debacle that many organization face now.
Sure, admirable wealth of data. this would certainly help.
Post by bipin kumar
now leave aside your personal tastes, idiosyncrasies and use the
commonsense  and tell us which is better investment of taxpayer’s
money aka your money
Thanks for the statement.  This would have given earlier, but now it came
with a wealth of statistics.
Post by bipin kumar
what i do with my hardware/software is my concern alone, whether i
play fps, rts or watch porn because i have paid for it with my hard
earned money. the govt/people's money is put into ICT for doing the
sole task of governance and nothing else as stated earlier. you want
to be creative buy your stuff, don't do it on common man's expense.
Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks. No
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it.
Post by bipin kumar
one point to add there is already a working linux based solution
if you haven't heard of. it is basically a customized debian distro as
far as i can gather from my tinkering with it. and it is working fine
till date with help of community support i might add. there is enough
opportunity for students to explore their creativity etc in that
platform.
The student thingy described above was the after-schooling problem. They do
have more than  enough to explore, and the freedom to take it to any height.
good. They remain in FOSS or migrate to some other platform?http://www.freelists.org/archive/schoolgnu/04-2010is the community i think.
i has 4 posts for the last month, only one technical issue. either its not
working, or its near perfect.
Akshaya system is another, which practically still runs mostly on
proprietory system.
the only drawback i see are the luck of sufficient amount of> hardware to ensure optimal access for students, lack of content  in
Post by bipin kumar
local languages which i should say is being addressed.
now to the last part. if someone is providing free good lunch for you,
fine go and have it by all means. If you don’t like it you have the
option of not going again, there is no compulsion. you cant be prickly
about the amount of salt in the sambar etc
game over for me :(  jaaabba! some MOAB fell on my head!
Post by bipin kumar
bipin
danku! that was constructive.
Post by bipin kumar
ps: posted from my win7/ubuntu lucid laptop :-)
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally
structured
Post by nishandh M
 enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders
in
Post by nishandh M
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited
performers
Post by nishandh M
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies
match]
Post by nishandh M
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members
should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it as
"It
Post by nishandh M
would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured enterprise?
Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing for
it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a
feild
Post by nishandh M
they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who
would
Post by nishandh M
like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels are
free
Post by nishandh M
to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL.
we
Post by nishandh M
have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an all
purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has
limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle
cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations are
made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting
priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities'  is understood as some
enforcement?
You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post?
heck you yourself has stated that govt is
Post by bipin kumar
going ahead with a custom  solution for their purpose
Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell> "
why
Post by nishandh M
does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i am
some
Post by nishandh M
non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in
FLOSS?
Post by nishandh M
 being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with the
adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic.
Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi',
you
Post by nishandh M
F***" and i stops it :)  not.
which means that
Post by bipin kumar
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include  customizing the os specific to hardware/software
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing  games are
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you
have
Post by nishandh M
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve
as
Post by nishandh M
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.
To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are
...
read more »
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nishandh M
2010-05-18 01:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
"> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
Post by nishandh M
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. "
its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am
referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement
in quotes don't require further explanation
Post by nishandh M
"I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! "
Post by nishandh M
"yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy
cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view"
really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like
to hear and see what you like to see.
This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the similiar
performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares are
there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which are
highly ranked among professionals.
Post by bipin kumar
this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted
of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational
system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the
schools)
now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context,
will you please explain.
Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know instances
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still there,
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy counts.
Post by bipin kumar
now regarding use of macs and other expensive
stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work,
have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just
to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein
structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no
other platform cuts it.
Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth to see
some discussion on it.
Post by bipin kumar
you want us wait for the day when such
technology becomes available in other affordable platforms?
This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or into the
dark space you called?
You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux.
Post by bipin kumar
i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are
made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and
financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis.
FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most outstanding
innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch"
And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered where
ever possible, when making decisions.
Post by bipin kumar
you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of
an organization.
Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed?
We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I would like
development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it matures
fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I asked
which ones would be the better ones.
Post by bipin kumar
However open source community can help the government
in taking intelligent decision while deploying an ICT infrastructure.
Post by nishandh M
"yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a
very transparent way ? "
now this is an example of the kind of journalism we see nowadays.
rather than reacting to the whole statement you are making comment on
the basis of a part of my argument and not the complete one. any sane
man reading through this post is going to have serious doubts
regarding your motives.
What is the complete argument? the first one you made reagrding government,
looked like "everything except funding for hardware is ok". I dont take it
that way, as i personally saw the problems. My cousine runs an Akshaya
center, i used to attend classes arranged for Linux instead of him and this
class was shared by school teachers. I know the magnitude of problems that
came out in that class.

Regarding my motive, I already said it wud be good to give more priority to
increasing userfriendliness.It helps spread, spreading helps users.

I dont exactly know the state of Linux,( My personal understanding is that
linux desktop is much more prone to break down, when the software profile is
changed. Its a linear cycle of breaks and make-agains, once you decide to
change software profile. I think no professional would afford it, unless he
has time for it,and fully capable of the repair workflow in all its ways.

anyway why should government should tackle
Post by bipin kumar
such a problem? as per our constitution government can interfere in
the activities of a business only if they are suspected/found to
commit malpractices under the law and not at the whims and fancies of
a person.
I shoud keep silence on what i percieve as imperfectness? Law is not static,
its ammended based on peoples cry. discussing it in forum is bad?
Post by bipin kumar
do you have any proof to the effect that corporations such
as Redhat is giving substandard products/services in order to boost
their profits, then by all means go ahead and sue them or make those
proof public so that we ignorants become enlightened. Till then its
innocent until proven guilty.
RedHat sells distro. And I never said RedHat. why did you specifically say
RedHat?
I stated a possibility.I have the right to.
'Standard products which are not servicable even by skilled user' is a
situation in field. At times, it is restricted to company service personnal,
which can be clearly shown to be under extra-profit motive.

Consider, the problem presented by Vyshak yesterday. Ubuntu doesnot provide
a default root password. there is only a complicated way of achieving it. Is
it a standard practice or a substandard practice?Linux Mint doesnt behave
this way, and it doest suffer anything worse. opinions may vary.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
"Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks.
No
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it."
now this is getting personal and the holy cow expression not humouring
me in this context
Holy cow / sacred cow is an expression used against anything which is immune
to criticism.
Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those
involving field release of GMO food]
Post by bipin kumar
put it this way i have a laptop which have brought from my fellowship.
this fellowship isn't anyone's gift or dole, rather i have earned it
and you personally know how difficult is to get one. so its my
prerogative that what i do with my system and your comments are not
welcome in that matter in a public forum.
When did i say something like that man?Off course I know how difficult it
is! You have any conscience problem with how you spend your salary, you deal
with it. Ask any reader of this thread wether any of communication contained
any indication on something like this. Why did you put that on my head? I
have never felt this stressed,reading the ML.

Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. Shud
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in a
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above
normal moral value.

i am aware of the fact that
Post by bipin kumar
fellowship is awarded to me by the country in the hope of me doing
something constructive to society and to that extend i will do
whatever i can.
we are sure you will.
Post by bipin kumar
however my personal life is not hostage to that fact
an hardware/software solution brought using taxpayers money by the
government for governance purpose should only be used for that purpose
alone and not for playing games by kids of some [public servant, if
they want to do that they can buy their own stuff from their salary.
I think the complexity is humorously used against my text going crippled?
on the lighter note do us a favour will you? read through your lengthy
statements twice before posting. its getting very difficult make sense
out of those statements, i can do better job making sense from some
journal articles
Yeah. I am not continuing any discussion associated with thoughts related to
FOSS, especially in any open forums. I am not putting this on you, you may
not answer this particular sentance. Just that I think I am doing more harm
than good.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you?
do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment
process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed
it to you in a way you understand
the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm
or al-qaeda for that matter.
I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and
pls
Post by nishandh M
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug!
Post by bipin kumar
they have their needs and might have consulted with peoples, and i
hope some of them might be from the community as well thats all the
fsug has to do with that decision and since its the govt decision
maybe you can file an RTI to know about actual variables they took in
to their decision making process and then come back here and discuss
the merits and demerits of the aforesaid solution, rather than
shooting in the dark
When i am shooting into ilug tvm, i dont think its shooting into dark.
there
Post by nishandh M
could be some men interestd.
Post by bipin kumar
there is something you have to get into thick skull, the hardware/
software procured by the government is supposed to do only one thing
which is to run the governance related applications(accounting,
inventory etc) and not any other frivolous stuff. the employees will
be trained to run those apps at the taxpayer's(which btw includes you
as well) expense.
yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy
cows.I
Post by nishandh M
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view)
Post by bipin kumar
further you claim that business model of linux based companies is
based on a flawed premise that, Linux is user-unfriendly and hence
there is requirement of customer support which they are milking for
their commercial purpose.
yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a
very transparent way ?
Post by bipin kumar
by the same logic the other OS supposedly
user friendly options are then literally ripping off the customers.
first you have to pay exorbitant amounts as licensing, deploy
expensive hardware and pay substantial amounts of money as maintenance
and support fees annually
i will give you an example, assuming the hardware cost being
same(maybe Rs. 00 for arguments sake) the cost of deploying SLED (this
includes OS, basic set of office applications and other productivity
tools, security framework etc) was around 7500 Rs per pc per year
excluding hardware, now if you are to deploy MS Vista/win7
enterprise(under MS EULA one cannot install any other version of
winOSs in commercial platform i.e anything above 25 pcs) you will have
to pay around the same amount for the OS alone, add to that price for
a enterprise wide security solution(same as earlier no retail version
allowed in commercial platforms) along with other required softwares.
now to use OSX you have to buy an relatively expensive hardware
platform just to have access to it. further if MS/apple decide to
cease support for a particular os version you will have shell out
additional amounts in terms of upgrading the hardware alone or else
you will be stuck with outdated and EOL solution. further the apps you
deployed on them might not be compatible to the newer os platform.
this is one the main reasons many organization are not upgrading from
win xp to vista/win7 despite MS pleas/ads. It is educating for you to
read about IE6 debacle that many organization face now.
Sure, admirable wealth of data. this would certainly help.
Post by bipin kumar
now leave aside your personal tastes, idiosyncrasies and use the
commonsense and tell us which is better investment of taxpayer’s
money aka your money
Thanks for the statement. This would have given earlier, but now it came
with a wealth of statistics.
Post by bipin kumar
what i do with my hardware/software is my concern alone, whether i
play fps, rts or watch porn because i have paid for it with my hard
earned money. the govt/people's money is put into ICT for doing the
sole task of governance and nothing else as stated earlier. you want
to be creative buy your stuff, don't do it on common man's expense.
Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks.
No
Post by nishandh M
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it.
Post by bipin kumar
one point to add there is already a working linux based solution
if you haven't heard of. it is basically a customized debian distro as
far as i can gather from my tinkering with it. and it is working fine
till date with help of community support i might add. there is enough
opportunity for students to explore their creativity etc in that
platform.
The student thingy described above was the after-schooling problem. They
do
Post by nishandh M
have more than enough to explore, and the freedom to take it to any
height.
Post by nishandh M
good. They remain in FOSS or migrate to some other platform?
http://www.freelists.org/archive/schoolgnu/04-2010is the community i
think.
Post by nishandh M
i has 4 posts for the last month, only one technical issue. either its
not
Post by nishandh M
working, or its near perfect.
Akshaya system is another, which practically still runs mostly on
proprietory system.
the only drawback i see are the luck of sufficient amount of> hardware to
ensure optimal access for students, lack of content in
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
local languages which i should say is being addressed.
now to the last part. if someone is providing free good lunch for you,
fine go and have it by all means. If you don’t like it you have the
option of not going again, there is no compulsion. you cant be prickly
about the amount of salt in the sambar etc
game over for me :( jaaabba! some MOAB fell on my head!
Post by bipin kumar
bipin
danku! that was constructive.
Post by bipin kumar
ps: posted from my win7/ubuntu lucid laptop :-)
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a
enterprise/organization.
true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its
imprint.
Post by bipin kumar
these decisions are result of deliberation
within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses
decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its
financial condition etc.
The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally
structured
Post by nishandh M
enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some
responders
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
in
Post by nishandh M
the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited
performers
Post by nishandh M
are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies
match]
Post by nishandh M
The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded
members
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it
as
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"It
Post by nishandh M
would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured
enterprise?
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing
for
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a
feild
Post by nishandh M
they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who
would
Post by nishandh M
like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels
are
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
free
Post by nishandh M
to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL.
Some elaboration which most of us doesnt need, but i enjoy story
we
Post by nishandh M
have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an
all
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has
limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle
cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations
are
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting
priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities' is understood as
some
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
enforcement?
You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post?
heck you yourself has stated that govt is
Post by bipin kumar
going ahead with a custom solution for their purpose
Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell>
"
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
why
Post by nishandh M
does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i
am
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
some
Post by nishandh M
non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in
FLOSS?
Post by nishandh M
being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with
the
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic.
Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you
'krimi',
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
you
Post by nishandh M
F***" and i stops it :) not.
which means that
Post by bipin kumar
this solution is optimized for their purpose,
Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The
usual
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working?
Post by bipin kumar
i repeat their purpose.
these might include customizing the os specific to
hardware/software
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to
do
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies.
playing
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
games.
Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing games
are
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them.
Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you
have
Post by nishandh M
succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may
percieve
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
as
Post by nishandh M
MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a
strategic
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get.
To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are
...
read more »
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"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org
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bipin kumar
2010-05-18 05:32:44 UTC
Permalink
"Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into
mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know
instances
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still
there,
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts."

yes it is wrong because as per your initial statement the government
was going in for custom GNU/Linux distro for adminstrative purposes.
this means running day to day governance activities. Now you can't get
simpler explanation for that. hence for the aforesaid purpose a custom
linux solution is a good choice. simply put, it just have to run those
governance apps and not your favourite video editing apps. now to the
latter part of the statement. regarding r&d majority of these
institutes operates as autonomous bodies i.e central government do not
interfere in day to day activities. all that central govt can do is
set the guideline is such way that ICT deployment in such institutions
provide lowest possible TCO(total cost of ownership)

"Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances
where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example
those
involving field release of GMO food]

Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give
you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes.
Shud
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are
in a
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an
above
normal moral value. "

this forum is not place to discuss the merits and demerits of r&d
going on in our country. we can debate over it in another place some
other time.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
Post by nishandh M
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. "
its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am
referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement
in quotes don't require further explanation
Post by nishandh M
"I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! "
Post by nishandh M
"yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy
cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view"
really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like
to hear and see what you like to see.
This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the similiar
performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares are
there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which are
highly ranked among professionals.
Post by bipin kumar
this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted
of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational
system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the
schools)
now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context,
will you please explain.
Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know instances
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still there,
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy counts.
Post by bipin kumar
now regarding use of macs and other expensive
stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work,
have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just
to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein
structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no
other platform cuts it.
 Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth to see
some discussion on it.
Post by bipin kumar
you want us wait for the day when such
technology becomes available in other affordable platforms?
This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or into the
dark space you called?
You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux.
Post by bipin kumar
i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are
made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and
financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis.
FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most outstanding
innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch"
And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered where
ever possible, when making decisions.
Post by bipin kumar
you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of
an organization.
Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed?
We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I would like
development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it matures
fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I asked
which ones would be the better ones.
Post by bipin kumar
However open source community can help the government
in taking intelligent decision  while deploying an ICT infrastructure.
Post by nishandh M
"yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a
very transparent way ? "
now this is an example of the kind of journalism we see nowadays.
rather than reacting to the whole statement you are making comment on
the basis of a part of my argument and not the complete one. any sane
man reading through this post is going to have serious doubts
regarding your motives.
What is the complete argument? the first one you made reagrding government,
looked like "everything except funding for hardware is ok". I dont take it
that way, as i personally saw the problems. My cousine runs an Akshaya
center, i used to attend classes arranged for Linux instead of him and this
class was shared by school teachers. I know the magnitude of problems that
came out in that class.
Regarding my motive, I already said it wud be good to give more priority to
increasing userfriendliness.It helps spread, spreading helps users.
I dont exactly know the state of Linux,( My personal understanding is that
linux desktop is much more prone to break down, when the software profile is
changed. Its a linear cycle of breaks and make-agains, once you decide to
change software profile. I think no professional would afford it, unless he
has time for it,and fully capable of the repair workflow in all its ways.
anyway why should government should tackle
Post by bipin kumar
such a problem? as per our constitution government can interfere in
the activities of a business only if they are suspected/found to
commit malpractices under the law and not at the whims and  fancies of
a person.
I shoud keep silence on what i percieve as imperfectness? Law is not static,
its ammended based on peoples cry. discussing it in forum is bad?
Post by bipin kumar
do you have any proof to the effect that corporations such
as Redhat is giving substandard products/services in order to boost
their profits, then by all means go ahead and sue them or make those
proof public so that we ignorants become enlightened. Till then its
innocent until proven guilty.
RedHat sells distro. And I never said RedHat. why did you specifically say
RedHat?
I stated a possibility.I have the right to.
'Standard products which are not servicable even by skilled user' is a
situation in field. At times, it is restricted to company service personnal,
which can be clearly shown to be under extra-profit motive.
Consider, the problem presented by Vyshak yesterday. Ubuntu doesnot provide
a default root password. there is only a complicated way of achieving it. Is
it a standard practice or a substandard practice?Linux Mint doesnt behave
this way, and it doest suffer anything worse. opinions may vary.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
"Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks.
No
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it."
now this is getting personal and the holy cow expression not humouring
me in this context
Holy cow / sacred cow is an expression used against anything which is immune
to criticism.
Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those
involving field release of GMO food]
Post by bipin kumar
put it this way i have a laptop which have brought from my fellowship.
this fellowship isn't anyone's gift or dole, rather i have earned it
and you personally know how difficult is to get one. so its my
prerogative that what i do with my system and your comments are not
welcome in that matter in a public forum.
When did i say something like that man?Off course I know how difficult it
is! You have any conscience problem with how you spend your salary, you deal
with it. Ask any reader of this thread wether any of communication contained
any indication on something like this. Why did you put that on my head? I
have never felt this stressed,reading the ML.
Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. Shud
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in a
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above
normal moral value.
i am aware of the fact that
Post by bipin kumar
fellowship is awarded to me by the country in the hope of me doing
something constructive to society and to that extend i will do
whatever i can.
we are sure you will.
Post by bipin kumar
however my personal life is not hostage to that fact
an hardware/software solution  brought using taxpayers money by the
government for governance purpose should only be used for that purpose
alone and not for playing games by kids of some [public servant, if
they want to do that they can buy their own stuff from their salary.
I think the complexity is humorously used against my text going crippled?
on the lighter note do us a favour will you? read through your lengthy
statements twice before posting. its getting very difficult make sense
out of those statements, i can do better job making sense from some
journal articles
Yeah. I am not continuing any discussion associated with thoughts related to
FOSS, especially in any open forums. I am not putting this on you, you may
not answer this particular sentance. Just that I think I am doing more harm
than good.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you?
do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment
process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed
it to you in a way you understand
the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm
or al-qaeda for that matter.
I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about
...
read more »
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org

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nishandh M
2010-05-18 16:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
"Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into
mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know instances
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still there,
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts."
yes it is wrong because as per your initial statement the government
was going in for custom GNU/Linux distro for adminstrative purposes.
this means running day to day governance activities. Now you can't get
simpler explanation for that.
@Bipin: That is a contextual fact, i gave in the first sentance. There are
other statements too. Being presented at first doesnt mean it is the essence
of the post. Should have been better if you attempted on the question..

hence for the aforesaid purpose a custom
Post by bipin kumar
linux solution is a good choice
simply put, it just have to run those
Post by bipin kumar
governance apps
@Bipin: taken as a comment on (1)
of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the selction
of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and
improvement.
Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, if it
the resource demand can be afforded and well managed.

Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. The
parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community support. The
core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at the
speed of its parent, making it substandard.

When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent forum, it
loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the debian
forum saying 'i am using ***@School and i would be pleased to get some
comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. For
international users dont know ***@School. And they wont be very much
intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring as a
more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election and
other group glorification purposes.

In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is
internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific demands
(language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only when
there is considerable change in policies.

the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at:
http://www.itmission.kerala.gov.in/index.php?searchword=FOSS&ordering=&searchphrase=all&option=com_search

.
Post by bipin kumar
and not your favourite video editing apps.
@Bipin: Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and
associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality**
because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS
arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread]

I get my favorite video apps running better when the above is taken into
consideration.buhhhuhhahha.
I get stability and office productivity when FOSS in governance sector is
improved.buhuhhahha

@evrybody:
Is there any need, to prevent parasites (like me) feeding on the
contributors effort? (NO/YES)
If there is an need, how do we accomplish it:
Share the specific distro only among those who sign a contribute-alike
licence?

What could be the terms of contribute-alike license?
a) send us money (hai hai dollar!)
b) make ten installations or get sued for braeking the contribute-alike
license
mitha-vaadhi version: brother, make some installation as far as you can,
and do some support you can, at your free time.
c) Time-bank (spend some hours in any way good for the socety. any
progressive way, not only IT service)
d) this would make people reluctant to adopt the specific distro.
e)People would adopt the distro, as most of them are wiling to contribute to
the society.
f)there is no phenomenon/process like 'parasitisation on GPL product' in our
FOSS dictionary, its just your sick brain man!
d)Distro development team would be much more pleased, as ther is direct
evidence of social change, and never has a feeling that they are feeding
permanent 'free lunch eaters'.
d) Shit-man, this is all already understood, there is no need of
formalisation/consolidation. Formalisation is bad, even if you
have time for it.

now to the
Post by bipin kumar
latter part of the statement. regarding r&d majority of these
institutes operates as autonomous bodies i.e central government do not
interfere in day to day activities. all that central govt can do is
set the guideline is such way that ICT deployment in such institutions
provide lowest possible TCO(total cost of ownership)
A comment on autocratic nature of institutes? does the TCO justify? atleast
in long term?

What I said was: govt "support" ,and not govt "control"
Post by bipin kumar
"Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances
where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those
involving field release of GMO food]
Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. Shud
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in a
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above
normal moral value. "
this forum is not place to discuss the merits and demerits of r&d
going on in our country. we can debate over it in another place some
other time.
welcome .you are right.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
Post by nishandh M
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. "
its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am
referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement
in quotes don't require further explanation
Post by nishandh M
"I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! "
Post by nishandh M
"yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research
laboratories.Holy
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view"
really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like
to hear and see what you like to see.
This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the
similiar
Post by nishandh M
performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares are
there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which are
highly ranked among professionals.
Post by bipin kumar
this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted
of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational
system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the
schools)
now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context,
will you please explain.
Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know
instances
Post by nishandh M
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still
there,
Post by nishandh M
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
now regarding use of macs and other expensive
stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work,
have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just
to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein
structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no
other platform cuts it.
Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth to
see
Post by nishandh M
some discussion on it.
Post by bipin kumar
you want us wait for the day when such
technology becomes available in other affordable platforms?
This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or into
the
Post by nishandh M
dark space you called?
You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux.
Post by bipin kumar
i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are
made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and
financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis.
FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most
outstanding
Post by nishandh M
innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch"
And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered where
ever possible, when making decisions.
Post by bipin kumar
you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of
an organization.
Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed?
We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I would
like
Post by nishandh M
development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it matures
fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I
asked
Post by nishandh M
which ones would be the better ones.
Post by bipin kumar
However open source community can help the government
in taking intelligent decision while deploying an ICT infrastructure.
Post by nishandh M
"yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make
Linux
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a
very transparent way ? "
now this is an example of the kind of journalism we see nowadays.
rather than reacting to the whole statement you are making comment on
the basis of a part of my argument and not the complete one. any sane
man reading through this post is going to have serious doubts
regarding your motives.
What is the complete argument? the first one you made reagrding
government,
Post by nishandh M
looked like "everything except funding for hardware is ok". I dont take
it
Post by nishandh M
that way, as i personally saw the problems. My cousine runs an Akshaya
center, i used to attend classes arranged for Linux instead of him and
this
Post by nishandh M
class was shared by school teachers. I know the magnitude of problems
that
Post by nishandh M
came out in that class.
Regarding my motive, I already said it wud be good to give more priority
to
Post by nishandh M
increasing userfriendliness.It helps spread, spreading helps users.
I dont exactly know the state of Linux,( My personal understanding is
that
Post by nishandh M
linux desktop is much more prone to break down, when the software profile
is
Post by nishandh M
changed. Its a linear cycle of breaks and make-agains, once you decide to
change software profile. I think no professional would afford it, unless
he
Post by nishandh M
has time for it,and fully capable of the repair workflow in all its ways.
anyway why should government should tackle
Post by bipin kumar
such a problem? as per our constitution government can interfere in
the activities of a business only if they are suspected/found to
commit malpractices under the law and not at the whims and fancies of
a person.
I shoud keep silence on what i percieve as imperfectness? Law is not
static,
Post by nishandh M
its ammended based on peoples cry. discussing it in forum is bad?
Post by bipin kumar
do you have any proof to the effect that corporations such
as Redhat is giving substandard products/services in order to boost
their profits, then by all means go ahead and sue them or make those
proof public so that we ignorants become enlightened. Till then its
innocent until proven guilty.
RedHat sells distro. And I never said RedHat. why did you specifically
say
Post by nishandh M
RedHat?
I stated a possibility.I have the right to.
'Standard products which are not servicable even by skilled user' is a
situation in field. At times, it is restricted to company service
personnal,
Post by nishandh M
which can be clearly shown to be under extra-profit motive.
Consider, the problem presented by Vyshak yesterday. Ubuntu doesnot
provide
Post by nishandh M
a default root password. there is only a complicated way of achieving it.
Is
Post by nishandh M
it a standard practice or a substandard practice?Linux Mint doesnt behave
this way, and it doest suffer anything worse. opinions may vary.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
"Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in
chunks.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
No
complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it."
now this is getting personal and the holy cow expression not humouring
me in this context
Holy cow / sacred cow is an expression used against anything which is
immune
Post by nishandh M
to criticism.
Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those
involving field release of GMO food]
Post by bipin kumar
put it this way i have a laptop which have brought from my fellowship.
this fellowship isn't anyone's gift or dole, rather i have earned it
and you personally know how difficult is to get one. so its my
prerogative that what i do with my system and your comments are not
welcome in that matter in a public forum.
When did i say something like that man?Off course I know how difficult it
is! You have any conscience problem with how you spend your salary, you
deal
Post by nishandh M
with it. Ask any reader of this thread wether any of communication
contained
Post by nishandh M
any indication on something like this. Why did you put that on my head? I
have never felt this stressed,reading the ML.
Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes.
Shud
Post by nishandh M
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in
a
Post by nishandh M
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above
normal moral value.
i am aware of the fact that
Post by bipin kumar
fellowship is awarded to me by the country in the hope of me doing
something constructive to society and to that extend i will do
whatever i can.
we are sure you will.
Post by bipin kumar
however my personal life is not hostage to that fact
an hardware/software solution brought using taxpayers money by the
government for governance purpose should only be used for that purpose
alone and not for playing games by kids of some [public servant, if
they want to do that they can buy their own stuff from their salary.
I think the complexity is humorously used against my text going
crippled?
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
on the lighter note do us a favour will you? read through your lengthy
statements twice before posting. its getting very difficult make sense
out of those statements, i can do better job making sense from some
journal articles
Yeah. I am not continuing any discussion associated with thoughts related
to
Post by nishandh M
FOSS, especially in any open forums. I am not putting this on you, you
may
Post by nishandh M
not answer this particular sentance. Just that I think I am doing more
harm
Post by nishandh M
than good.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you?
do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment
process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon
feed
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
it to you in a way you understand
the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or
ilug-tvm
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
or al-qaeda for that matter.
I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about
...
read more »
--
"Freedom is the only law".
"Freedom Unplugged"
http://www.ilug-tvm.org
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To control your subscription visit
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--
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
Leonardo da Vinci
#//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////#
--
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"Freedom Unplugged"
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bipin kumar
2010-05-18 20:02:48 UTC
Permalink
its getting really tiresome.

"of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the
selction
of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and
improvement.
Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK,
if it
the resource demand can be afforded and well managed.

Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro.
The
parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community
support. The
core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at
the
speed of its parent, making it substandard.

When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent
forum, it
loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the
debian
forum saying 'i am using ***@School and i would be pleased to get some
comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers.
For
international users dont know ***@School. And they wont be very much
intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring
as a
more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election
and
other group glorification purposes.

In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is
internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific
demands
(language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only
when
there is considerable change in policies.

the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at: "

in the entire above paragraph you are commenting on the government's
decision without having any substantial info regarding the actual
variables that were used in making such a decision. simply put this is
what i meant by you are shooting in the dark. if you want make such a
statement first get your facts, file an RTI, get the answers from
concerned authorities on what basis they are going ahead with custom
solution and then come back here for a debate, rather than chasing the
smoke.
further why shouldn't government use a custom os for their purpose.
maybe you have given some generic reasons, but that doesn't fly. to
give you an example who said government is going ahead with expensive
dedicated pc based solution for governance, they could have gone for
thin client based solutions as well, where only one good server and
and array of barebone pcs are sufficient for the task. can you imagine
how a full fledged desktop based distro solution fit into this
situation. further it is nothing new that organizations deploy their
own custom linux solution for their purposes, that are radically
different from the mainstream you are so fond of. an example is is the
version of linux deployed in google servers, kernel of which is
radically different from the mainstream linux kernel tree. oracle too
has such a solution. now dont get started on the lines that govt lack
the ability to do so. we do have talented pool of unemployed youth in
kerala, maybe this might be an opportunity for them. lets not be
cynical.

'i am using ***@School and i would be pleased to get some
comments or the following problem"
here its the problem of the way of asking the question. rather than
saying ***@school linux its better to say debian sarge(i may be wrong
about actual version of debian used) based distro and one might get
proper answers. its important to ask intelligent questions to get
intelligent answers.

"Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and
associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality**
because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS
arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread] "

simply put its not fact its just a statement made by you without any
source of reference.
further a person who actually trained well in FOSS based solution is
most likely to be better skilled in adapting solutions that are
dissimilar to one he is experineced, converse is true for proprietary
solutions as well. "where is Microsoft word ?" syndrome i mentioned
earlier thread becomes valid over here.

Bipin
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into
mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know instances
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still there,
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts."
yes it is wrong because as per your initial statement the government
was going in for custom GNU/Linux distro for adminstrative purposes.
this means running day to day governance activities. Now you can't get
simpler explanation for that.
@Bipin: That is a contextual fact, i gave in the first sentance. There are
other statements too. Being presented at first doesnt mean it is the essence
of the post. Should have been better if you attempted on the question..
hence for the aforesaid purpose a custom
Post by bipin kumar
linux solution is a good choice
simply put, it just have to run those
Post by bipin kumar
governance apps
@Bipin: taken as a comment on (1)
of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the selction
of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and
improvement.
Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, if it
the resource demand can be afforded and well managed.
Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. The
parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community support. The
core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at the
speed of  its parent, making it substandard.
When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent forum, it
loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the debian
comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. For
intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring as a
more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election and
other group glorification purposes.
In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is
internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific demands
(language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only when
there is considerable change in policies.
the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at:http://www.itmission.kerala.gov.in/index.php?searchword=FOSS&ordering...
.
Post by bipin kumar
and not your favourite video editing apps.
@Bipin: Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and
associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality**
because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS
arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread]
I get my favorite video apps running better when the above is taken into
consideration.buhhhuhhahha.
I get stability and office productivity when FOSS in governance sector is
improved.buhuhhahha
Is there any need, to prevent parasites (like me) feeding on the
contributors effort?  (NO/YES)
Share the specific distro only among those who sign a contribute-alike
licence?
What could be the terms of contribute-alike license?
a) send us money (hai hai dollar!)
b) make ten installations or get sued for braeking the contribute-alike
license
 mitha-vaadhi version: brother, make some installation as far as you can,
and do some support you can, at your free time.
c) Time-bank (spend some hours in any way good for the socety. any
progressive way, not only IT service)
d) this would make people reluctant to adopt the specific distro.
e)People would adopt the distro, as most of them are wiling to contribute to
the society.
f)there is no phenomenon/process like 'parasitisation on GPL product' in our
FOSS dictionary, its just your sick brain man!
d)Distro development team would be much more pleased, as ther is direct
evidence of social change, and never has a feeling that they are feeding
permanent 'free lunch eaters'.
d) Shit-man, this is all already understood, there is no need of
formalisation/consolidation. Formalisation is bad, even if you
have time for it.
now to the> latter part of the statement. regarding r&d majority of these
Post by bipin kumar
institutes operates as autonomous bodies i.e central government do not
interfere in day to day activities. all that central govt can do is
set the guideline is such way that ICT deployment in such institutions
provide lowest possible TCO(total cost of ownership)
A comment on autocratic nature of institutes? does the TCO justify? atleast
in long term?
What I said was: govt "support" ,and not govt "control"
Post by bipin kumar
"Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances
where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those
involving field release of GMO food]
Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. Shud
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in a
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above
normal moral value. "
this forum is not place to discuss the merits and demerits of r&d
going  on in our country. we can debate over it in another place some
other time.
welcome .you are right.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
Post by nishandh M
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. "
its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am
referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement
in quotes don't require further explanation
Post by nishandh M
"I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! "
Post by nishandh M
"yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research
laboratories.Holy
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view"
really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like
to hear and see what you like to see.
This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the
similiar
Post by nishandh M
performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares are
there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which are
highly ranked among professionals.
Post by bipin kumar
this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted
of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational
system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the
schools)
now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context,
will you please explain.
Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know
instances
Post by nishandh M
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still
there,
Post by nishandh M
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
now regarding use of macs and other expensive
stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work,
have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just
to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein
structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no
other platform cuts it.
 Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth to
see
Post by nishandh M
some discussion on it.
Post by bipin kumar
you want us wait for the day when such
technology becomes available in other affordable platforms?
This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or into
the
Post by nishandh M
dark space you called?
You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux.
Post by bipin kumar
i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are
made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and
financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis.
FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most
outstanding
Post by nishandh M
innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch"
And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered where
ever possible, when making decisions.
Post by bipin kumar
you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of
an organization.
Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed?
We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I would
like
Post by nishandh M
development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it matures
fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I
asked
Post by nishandh M
which ones would be the better ones.
Post by bipin kumar
However open source
...
read more »
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nishandh M
2010-05-18 23:40:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by bipin kumar
its getting really tiresome.
"of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the
selction
of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and
improvement.
Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, if it
the resource demand can be afforded and well managed.
Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. The
parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community
support. The
core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at the
speed of its parent, making it substandard.
When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent forum, it
loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the debian
comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. For
intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring as a
more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election and
other group glorification purposes.
In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is
internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific demands
(language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only when
there is considerable change in policies.
the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at: "
in the entire above paragraph you are commenting on the government's
decision without having any substantial info regarding the actual
variables that were used in making such a decision. simply put this is
what i meant by you are shooting in the dark.
while answering, i hope you had full reference to stick so much on to it
that there is absolutely nothing to be concerned in the governance
sector?else you could have just asked to put more data,without making
statements or assumptions. And make a commitment that you would be involved
in tackling it in an effective way. The same logic with which you say that I
should go to RTI and take taht kind of systematic steps before I discuss it
in a Mailing list.
Post by bipin kumar
if you want make such a
statement first get your facts, file an RTI, get the answers from
concerned authorities on what basis they are going ahead with custom
solution and then come back here for a debate, rather than chasing the
smoke.
further why shouldn't government use a custom os for their purpose.
maybe you have given some generic reasons, but that doesn't fly. to
give you an example who said government is going ahead with expensive
dedicated pc based solution for governance, they could have gone for
thin client based solutions as well, where only one good server and
and array of barebone pcs are sufficient for the task.
why is thin client system not adopted then?

Thin client deployment Vs individual system was the cover page feature for
many issues in Indian IT magazines for some time, untill sub10,000K
computers surfaced.In later issues, thin clients were reported to be more
expensive.
Issues: [Heavy UPS power support and cool isolated atmosphere for the
server. long cables, which could damage a lot if disturbed, unlike a LAN.
What is actually lacking in a thin client? A full fledged processor.The
individual 7200rpm HDD at client end would be substituted by a RAID at the
other end. Motherboard BUS speeds Vs Thinclient BUS speeds debatable. Weighs
equal in economics with lower perfomance?Advantages like centarlised
database remains even though.This is the case for governance like resource
usage scenario.

Accentia @ Tvm technopark considered thin client, then droped the idea. dunk
dunkaaa! They are in Medical transcription field, The purpose was just to
stream normal bitrate audio, and run a text editor. Situation was not
OS/software specific.

BSNL Nova PC is such an initiative which uses broadband internet
connection.Depoyed already at select cities. I donno much about it. Says
processing would be done centrally. Novatium.com does not mention such
details in main pages.

Thank god you didnt come up with openhardware or cloud computing.
or Govt Starting manufacturing computers as such. Hope one day Keltron would
be a strong name.


can you imagine
Post by bipin kumar
how a full fledged desktop based distro solution fit into this
situation. further it is nothing new that organizations deploy their
own custom linux solution for their purposes, that are radically
different from the mainstream you are so fond of.
I would ask my girl friend to talk to you for a while, because you know me
better than myself! [?] I am "so fond of mainstream"!
Post by bipin kumar
an example is is the
version of linux deployed in google servers, kernel of which is
radically different from the mainstream linux kernel tree. oracle too
has such a solution. now dont get started on the lines that govt lack
the ability to do so. we do have talented pool of unemployed youth in
kerala, maybe this might be an opportunity for them. lets not be
cynical.
true.
Does those Google thingy fall under GNU GPL? i would like to test it on my
celeron1.4GHz.
Bip, not making you angry, i am very curious about how to get a GPL code be
kept locked, keeping GNU GPL licence on softwares. make custom hardware with
some "ÐÁÔÔÉÞÁÅ ÐÁÔÔÉÞÁÅ" instruction sets which nobody understand? (dont go
for the translation, i just meant "unreadable")

To make it simple, add a single small piece of propreitory hardware with
some uncrackable instruction sets in it. Then write crooked code, which
takes a life time prepaid to understand. add shortcuts and bypasses to
compensate decrease in code perfomance.
I am this crooked, no albutham that I am always beaten up by everybody
around me.
Post by bipin kumar
comments or the following problem"
here its the problem of the way of asking the question. rather than
about actual version of debian used) based distro and one might get
proper answers. its important to ask intelligent questions to get
intelligent answers.
simple questions can be intelligently answered too. Look into the
documentation of ***@School. and normal user get no idea what changes had
been made to the base distro, what the actual customisations are.
And ***@school user -student as well as a teacher, would be able to extract
out the software profile,necessary to be supplied with questions. :D . Just
the base distro version is enough when responding with an issue? And you are
indirectly supporting on familiarising it as a different entity.
Post by bipin kumar
"Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and
associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality**
because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS
arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread] "
simply put its not fact its just a statement made by you without any
source of reference.
my personal attempt to setup a video machine is the refernce. ArtistX,
UbuntuStudio and DyneBolic are the ones tried so far. lagging, not
processing my footage. The details would be put later.
I am listening to cinellerra mailing list since 2008. far lagging in
handling footage available now. Kino, Openvideo editor etc are not
comparable to professional ones.


exception is Blender.
Blender is near professional software, if the user has mastery over it.It do
have some video capabilities.
Gimp was not performing good in my comparison test with PS some months back.
memmroy not getting released i think.

further a person who actually trained well in FOSS based solution is
Post by bipin kumar
most likely to be better skilled in adapting solutions that are
dissimilar to one he is experineced, converse is true for proprietary
solutions as well. "where is Microsoft word ?" syndrome i mentioned
earlier thread becomes valid over here.
as in 'somebody with a male voice called me at evening and said "son i
robed you, that you be aware that you are susceptible to getting robbed, and
you would learn to ponder with the situation better tomarrow" ?

let the users pay that price of learning, it would surely help.in any case.


Bipin, you are adding a lot of data, thanks, but i humbly request you to
lower down the muzzle power at which you are sending it to me. Were'nt you
aggressive at the first post boss? now thanks for not just leaving me to
alone to perish. thanks for the company.

Bipin
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into
mention?
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know instances
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still there,
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts."
yes it is wrong because as per your initial statement the government
was going in for custom GNU/Linux distro for adminstrative purposes.
this means running day to day governance activities. Now you can't get
simpler explanation for that.
@Bipin: That is a contextual fact, i gave in the first sentance. There
are
Post by nishandh M
other statements too. Being presented at first doesnt mean it is the
essence
Post by nishandh M
of the post. Should have been better if you attempted on the question..
hence for the aforesaid purpose a custom
Post by bipin kumar
linux solution is a good choice
simply put, it just have to run those
Post by bipin kumar
governance apps
@Bipin: taken as a comment on (1)
of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the
selction
Post by nishandh M
of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and
improvement.
Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, if
it
Post by nishandh M
the resource demand can be afforded and well managed.
Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. The
parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community support.
The
Post by nishandh M
core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at
the
Post by nishandh M
speed of its parent, making it substandard.
When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent forum,
it
Post by nishandh M
loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the
debian
Post by nishandh M
comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. For
intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring as
a
Post by nishandh M
more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election
and
Post by nishandh M
other group glorification purposes.
In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is
internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific demands
(language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only
when
Post by nishandh M
there is considerable change in policies.
http://www.itmission.kerala.gov.in/index.php?searchword=FOSS&ordering...
Post by nishandh M
.
Post by bipin kumar
and not your favourite video editing apps.
@Bipin: Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and
associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality**
because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS
arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread]
I get my favorite video apps running better when the above is taken into
consideration.buhhhuhhahha.
I get stability and office productivity when FOSS in governance sector is
improved.buhuhhahha
Is there any need, to prevent parasites (like me) feeding on the
contributors effort? (NO/YES)
Share the specific distro only among those who sign a contribute-alike
licence?
What could be the terms of contribute-alike license?
a) send us money (hai hai dollar!)
b) make ten installations or get sued for braeking the contribute-alike
license
mitha-vaadhi version: brother, make some installation as far as you can,
and do some support you can, at your free time.
c) Time-bank (spend some hours in any way good for the socety. any
progressive way, not only IT service)
d) this would make people reluctant to adopt the specific distro.
e)People would adopt the distro, as most of them are wiling to contribute
to
Post by nishandh M
the society.
f)there is no phenomenon/process like 'parasitisation on GPL product' in
our
Post by nishandh M
FOSS dictionary, its just your sick brain man!
d)Distro development team would be much more pleased, as ther is direct
evidence of social change, and never has a feeling that they are feeding
permanent 'free lunch eaters'.
d) Shit-man, this is all already understood, there is no need of
formalisation/consolidation. Formalisation is bad, even if you
have time for it.
now to the> latter part of the statement. regarding r&d majority of these
Post by bipin kumar
institutes operates as autonomous bodies i.e central government do not
interfere in day to day activities. all that central govt can do is
set the guideline is such way that ICT deployment in such institutions
provide lowest possible TCO(total cost of ownership)
A comment on autocratic nature of institutes? does the TCO justify?
atleast
Post by nishandh M
in long term?
What I said was: govt "support" ,and not govt "control"
Post by bipin kumar
"Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances
where
there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those
involving field release of GMO food]
Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a
number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. Shud
I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in a
reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above
normal moral value. "
this forum is not place to discuss the merits and demerits of r&d
going on in our country. we can debate over it in another place some
other time.
welcome .you are right.
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
"> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in
Post by nishandh M
educational
system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the
user
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
choose'
ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they
have
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
chosen a solution that can meet their organizational
requirements. "
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am
referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following
statement
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
in quotes don't require further explanation
Post by nishandh M
"I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :(
since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its
fsug.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
and pls
gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! "
Post by nishandh M
"yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research
laboratories.Holy
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
cows.I
have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am
supportng ur view"
really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really
like
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
to hear and see what you like to see.
This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the
similiar
Post by nishandh M
performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares
are
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which
are
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
highly ranked among professionals.
Post by bipin kumar
this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has
opted
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes &
educational
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the
schools)
now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this
context,
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
will you please explain.
Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into
mention?
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know
instances
Post by nishandh M
where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still
there,
Post by nishandh M
and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like
installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are
supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy
counts.
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
now regarding use of macs and other expensive
stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work,
have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab.
just
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein
structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because
no
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
other platform cuts it.
Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth
to
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
see
Post by nishandh M
some discussion on it.
Post by bipin kumar
you want us wait for the day when such
technology becomes available in other affordable platforms?
This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or
into
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
the
Post by nishandh M
dark space you called?
You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux.
Post by bipin kumar
i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise
are
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and
financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis.
FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most
outstanding
Post by nishandh M
innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch"
And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered
where
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
ever possible, when making decisions.
Post by bipin kumar
you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats
of
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
an organization.
Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed?
We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I
would
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
like
Post by nishandh M
development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it
matures
Post by nishandh M
Post by bipin kumar
Post by nishandh M
fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I
asked
Post by nishandh M
which ones would be the better ones.
Post by bipin kumar
However open source
...
read more >>
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